My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

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Post  Makaira on 3rd April 2012, 3:16 am

G that tank is looking great mate.
i think its about time i put on a carton and got you and igno around for a chat and a crash course in filtration.
as my tanks cabinet is lacking the room to do what you have.
btw whens the next meeting?
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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 4th April 2012, 9:24 am

scottatwello wrote:
my tanks cabinet is lacking the room to do what you have.

Scott i built my system to run multiple tanks and be mobile and hard to break any part of it,being all plastic,an under tank system of this design inside the cabinet you have will do your tank and another,easily,its the design and sequence of areas that makes it work,not the size,mine will run two to three-four foot tanks easily,possibly more!

You could fit one under your tank easily,you just make it to suit,no worries at all.

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 13th April 2012, 3:12 pm

Just a few up dates from recent times.
Trying some corals at the base of the tank to see what the LEDs can do,one has been moved to the bottom and has changed colour and two others are new,so time will tell.
Firstly a new pic of the tank has gone in where the pics are from day one.
The first pic here is of a chelmon-copperband from three weeks back doing very well.




The spot the dice box hangs when the lights are about to go out.




Growing Auzy biscuit sea star lovin g the algae and sponge in the aquarium.




The cleaner shrimp doing well after several months.



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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 24th May 2012, 11:01 am

The first testing I have done in quiet a few years.
24-05-12

The tests read as-
Cal 28 to 29 drops to colour, over 550
KH 8 to 9 drops to colour, around ppm KH 150.0
Phosphate-0
Nitrate-0

This was an API test kit so the phosphate part of it is maybe not perfect.

Nature is a wonderful thing and natural ways get natural results.


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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 29th May 2012, 3:35 pm

My biscuit stars cleaning the corals, tirless workers these endemic sea stars.



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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 24th June 2012, 7:58 am

Just some updates my tank and life forms i use.

The Choati wrasse I caught and put in the aquarium in April has had a hard time as no one leaves it in peace, so it is rarely out feeding with the rest of the tank life.
This pic is of its safe and relaxing place at lights out time.



These pics are of a pair of red line shrimp that have been living in a coke bottle container for nearly 3 months now.
They are big enough to do something with them as they have completed a few sheds, originally I wasnít going to do anything with them but where they were maybe going was to big a risk to their safety so I will give them a tub and they can breed in there.
The last time I bred red lines it was sometimes three that got to a good size out of many, they eat each other at sheds, not great results but that was just from feeding them normally.
This pic is of them when collected.



This pic is as of 24th June 2012


They get their own tub this afternoon.

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  kindcorals on 11th July 2012, 3:51 am

That is an awesome tank!! I cant believe how full it is, 99% doesnt seem to give much room for growth. I want to have a more in depth read over your system to understand the filtration and how you wont need water changes. How is the leopard wrasse doing? I love those guys but unfortunately I didnt completely understand their needs when I bought one many years ago.

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 18th July 2012, 9:36 am

kindcorals wrote:That is an awesome tank!! I cant believe how full it is, 99% doesnt seem to give much room for growth. I want to have a more in depth read over your system to understand the filtration and how you wont need water changes. How is the leopard wrasse doing? I love those guys but unfortunately I didnt completely understand their needs when I bought one many years ago.

With leopard wrasse and the last banana wrasse I gave them away, to much in fighting, its just the Choati, clown and pyjama wrasses of the wrasse in the tank, they all get on well now.

The mimic tang has made other wrasse leap out worse luck, I would like to get rid of it but its one of my wifeís favourites, they can be a bit pushy.

The NWM system, my bio filter, relies on the same ways that nature absorbs and converts all waste,its that simple.

I have to restrict some growth by algae and corals in the tank,that is part of my weekly half hour of maintenance.

I snap off corals when needed, and trim algae and use a syringe and metho to kill over abundant zoas,they really get out of hand and grow onto my stags!

The corals have only grown nearly four times their original size in the 11 months of life in my tank, I keep their growth slow on purpose.

It has taken many years to perfect this natural system against so much flack its not funny, near no one except those I know, believe its even possible.

It goes against all of the popular ways and shop pushed ways to run a reef tank.

I like the way with minimal work it looks after itself with no need for water changes or testing, I only got a test kit, the first one in over 12 years, to appease some guys I know that didnít believe it was possible to have spot on water with no water changes.

As I say to them, look around you, how do you think nature copes with all the stuff we throw at it,thats what the system does, bacterial,protist biological,mircoble and photosynthesising plant life,thats what happens between the water leaving my tank to returning to my tank.

I have decided I am going to put the other tank,its glass I cut up and left in a pack in the shed,it is going underneath the one there now for corals, tube worms, feather stars and ascidians only.

I just connect it via a return pump from the bottom tub and over flow back in via a pre filer and its totally matured in 10 seconds
There no maturing as it runs off the NWMS matured last year,it can handle up to 4 tanks leaving out anything the live rock will add, thatís why I made it that way,it runs my water, not live rock or skimmers


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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  kindcorals on 18th July 2012, 1:06 pm

I just finished reading an article from the Coral Magazine app about breeders finally making progress with breeding Latz. I thought it said they were a restricted species to collect no? I've been out of the hobby for a few years but now they seem to be all over the place. They really are a cool variety of clownfish!

My girlfriend wants one of the pink biscuit stars you have in your tank. What do you mean by it being endemic?

Too bad about the wrasses and the women usually get their say when it comes to hobbies that take over the house Smile

I love the idea of a system that works so well with only minimal maintenance required. I had a similar setup with a deep sand bed, skimmer, tons of LR and chaeto that didnt require much maintenance. I kept most everything, RBTAs, LPS, softies, easy SPS, but it obviously wasnt as perfect of a system as the more demanding SPS did not survive in my tank.

I definitely want to learn as much as I can about the way your system runs and I cant believe that it can handle up to 4 large tanks! It looks like you have decent amount of fish in the tank now, how would you say your system would cope with a heavy bioload in each of the 4 tanks, if you did connect that many?

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 18th July 2012, 3:16 pm

Endemic means from one area, endemic to that area.

Biscuit sea stars need cool water,latz and biscuit sea stars like the same conditions.

Latz are perfectly legal to collect.

Mate this type of system costs very little and that upsets the shops and the shops and disorders run the net.

The others that run the net are,(I bought a better one then yours, or I found out something you didnít) if it isnít done that way it canít work as good as mine,lol.

I have only been using the net for about 5 years, before that I didnít know how to switch on a computer and for reasons of my own, never switched onto latin names and scientific terms, things had to change.

I just knew visually and physically what I had found out and experimented with.

The results I get, if you read anything I wrote back then you would think, what????

I have had over 70 fish in a four footer before, no nitrite cycle showing at all\,just very high phosphates, thatís when I joined the buying crowed for a while and used phosphates sponge and activated substances.

No where except to some degree reef central in the states will you find much on natural systems, certainly no one would be game in this country to promote it, if they actually used a successful one.

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  kindcorals on 20th July 2012, 12:07 pm

I can see why the shops might get upset, there is not much in the backbone of your system that they could sell you! And 70 fish in a 4' tank, thats amazing!! I definitely have to get something like this going for my next tank/tanks. I have a couple questions though.

How big are the plastic tubs you are using and is it necessary to have them so large? I know that more water volume is better but it does seem to take up quite a bit of space. The old system you had that was under the tank, how many tanks or liters of water do you think a system of that size would support? That size looks a little more my style as I dont think I'd have room for large tanks and the NWMS that you currently have setup, My girlfriend will kill me if I take over our whole spare bedroom LOL

Also, do you grow the Racemosa in one of the bottom tubs in your current system? I cant remember if you said the algae grows in 7" of water? So I think it might be down in the bottom tubs.

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 20th July 2012, 12:20 pm

No,the system I built and put the build in the help section will do the same for a two foot tank, its 500 mill long by 400 mill high and 380 mill wide.

With an extra algae section it will do a four to five foot tanks easily.

The system will not work at its best from my usage trials with out the racemosa,there will be toxins and phosphates to deal with.

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 20th July 2012, 12:38 pm

Updates on my sardine can tank

I like the local brown algae I introduced two months back, love the algaeís.



I trimmed the Neptuneís necklace coralline algae two days ago and there is already growth, love it but it sucks the needs for coral growth out of the water.
The trimmings were heated and reintroduced, waste nothing!



I placed some pieces of the blue sponge between my homemade live rock we find under rocks around two months back and its sprung up in 7 areas, this is the only one in a slightly lit area on the left with a white arrow to it and a new type of coral for my tank has sprung up, itís the other white arrow on the right.



After trimming the xenia last month to get it off my stags, its growing back more then before, wonderful!



Dam zoas killing my tubastrea just after I injected some from the stags again shouldnít have put them in there, no way in the bottom tank.


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Some thing new in the tubs.

Lipstick tang from last weekends collecting, its not sure about the camera yet.
When I give it algae it comes to the top and when my wife feeds it nearly sticks it head out of the water, but I put a camera in the tub and it hates me.




Last edited by liquidg on 21st July 2012, 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  finfan on 20th July 2012, 4:48 pm

Looking good mate...

That brown plate algae is going well....it looks great..

Any pics of the lipstick you recently caught....it was a great size and is the next on my list - all tangs caught a few weeks back are going well so hopefully I can keep more with success....

I have a question - how do you trim xenia? Its going stupid in my tank tank- attaching itself to everything....I need to get it under control...???

Cool

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 20th July 2012, 5:43 pm

I will get a pic up of the lipstick soon, its eaten near all the racemosa in with the dotty back and half the chaetomorpha,it comes to the top of the tub now when I get a piece of the racemosa out of the algae area of the NWMS and takes it from fingers, fat fish that one.

The xenia I just used scissors but that didnít kill it, it actually formed two more areas of it self.

The problem with it is that it takes light the acropora needs, its algae expelling is good on one hand but the growth rate at times is a bit annoying.
Scissors donít work!

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  finfan on 21st July 2012, 6:08 am

Scissors no good ah - maybe bom bom bom bom bom bom affraid

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  kindcorals on 1st August 2012, 11:04 am

I was looking at your coralline rollers filtration sections and wondering how I could set it up for my next tank. I was thinking of using a crushed coral substrate instead of larger coralline rollers since I will be somewhat limited on space. If I used a thick pre-filter, then filled up my 50cm deep overflow chamber with crushed coral, how do you think this would function as a nitrite and nitrate oxidising section?

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 1st August 2012, 12:09 pm

The thing you should always put before any external bio filtration media is firstly a pre filter wall and secondly a settling pre filter chamber, this can be made all in one and only take up the equivalent space of 150 mill by 150 mill and the required height which should be as high as possible next to your bio filtering sump and over flow into it.

Water in, next to the Dacron barrier to go through it, then near up against it the settling pre filter pipe.

With out a settling pre filter, no bio media will remain clean and this will reduce its valuable porus nature.

This is how simple it is to oxidise all of the nitrite cycle.

Try to imagine a peace of pipe that is 200 mil in diameter,seal the base,cut a hole near to the base and glue in with epoxy glue a section of small pipe for your tanks water to come in through under the floor, make a floor of egg crate with some mesh on it the same sized hole as stocking bags for use in washing machines,

That supports some cal media, white lime stone bits or shell grit, what ever.

Cut up two lengths of cardboard or similar the height of the pipe that will slide down into the pipe and divide it into thirds, the middle third needs to be smallish.

Fill all thirds at the same time, the middle one with course calcium bits,say around 6 to ten mill in size, then fill the other two thirds either side of it with 3 to 5 mill bits of calcium up to 60 mill from the top of the pipe,pull all lengths of cardboard out,all calcium bits will remain in their sections up against each other,you now have aerobic through the middle where there is the least resistance so the main flow will go through there and anaerobic each side as they will act as sought of vertical deep sand beds.

Put an over flow pipe at the top and run your tanks water in through it and you now have very little white spot and the nitrite cycle completely accounted for.

It really is that simple if you do not let any matter get to it.

The most corrupting matter rendering the porus side of your bio filter useless over time are, cilica from discarded plankton shells, tiny calcium bone bits from fish foods and some from coraline, settling pre filters wonít let these past!!

This is an example of both pre filters in one.
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Show a couple of pics if you can of what you are doing or want to do, maybe a diagram or two in your own journal thread maybe.

Ask away from that as it would be easier to respond to from pics and sizes explained.

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 5th August 2012, 1:45 am

Fragging glue and general strong epoxy resin.

Just getting all sorted for my invert tank and there needs to be a great deal of fragging done with it.

So I tracked down a good epoxy to do jobs like attaching corals to glass and each other and attaching virtually anything to glass and anything else really.

This one is a not to runny and rapid cure,but still retains a high bond and I mean a very high bond, you put something together with this stuff and it doesnít come a part again!

This is my epoxy.



The consistency of it once part A and B are mixed.



This is an old dead stag attached to a barnacle base, both were soaked in water then tissue dried at the point of contact and they are as one now.



I am yet to put a lot of this into the tank water, just sat a couple of small areas of it on some fibre cement and let it go off in the water and no one died, so its all good, but then again I have lots of algae to off set any toxins and basicly make it all fool proof and with me that's needed,lol.

This epoxy is similar to the one I used to use in the 80s when i would attach corals to each other or the glass and then the phosphates would kill them in no time.

That was until I started using phosphate sponge and made my own skimmers, now they are out of the equation as algae used correctly does a far better job then that stuff now that part of the hobby is fully understood and experimented with to get perfection out of the use of them.


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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 9th August 2012, 2:38 am

There is no way i could ever adequately express the value and amazing attributes of this vast section of life forms that control the earths atmosphere that gave us life and still do, so I will just enjoy my tiny peice of it combined with simplistic bio filtering for what nature is doing for my hobby!
The internet does not give any real information or support on how to use the life forms in these ways, completely running a marine eco system with out ever needing the water changed or attended to in any way!!

Daitoms,cyano,basic unicelular,mono celular,all types,they all are of value to water quality of our aquarium waters,if used correctly and in abundance.
Plus abundant algae and each day pre filter cleaning,keeps all of your cyano out of the aquarium.

Its taken a lot of work and time but many different algaeís are presented in the NWMS now run by four 10 watt T8 LED replacement fluro tubes at 20 hours per day of light.
A lot of varied photosynthesis going on from these adding their equally varied structural make up back into the waters from natural bacterial decay,when culled, love it.



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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  kindcorals on 11th August 2012, 9:45 am

liquidg wrote:The thing you should always put before any external bio filtration media is firstly a pre filter wall and secondly a settling pre filter chamber, this can be made all in one and only take up the equivalent space of 150 mill by 150 mill and the required height which should be as high as possible next to your bio filtering sump and over flow into it.

Water in, next to the Dacron barrier to go through it, then near up against it the settling pre filter pipe.

Try to imagine a peace of pipe that is 200 mil in diameter,seal the base,cut a hole near to the base and glue in with epoxy glue a section of small pipe for your tanks water to come in through under the floor, make a floor of egg crate with some mesh on it the same sized hole as stocking bags for use in washing machines,

Fill all thirds at the same time, the middle one with course calcium bits,say around 6 to ten mill in size, then fill the other two thirds either side of it with 3 to 5 mill bits of calcium up to 60 mill from the top of the pipe,pull all lengths of cardboard out,all calcium bits will remain in their sections up against each other,you now have aerobic through the middle where there is the least resistance so the main flow will go through there and anaerobic each side as they will act as sought of vertical deep sand beds.

I hope Im not hijacking your thread with all these questions but I looked at the link and the settling pre-filter makes more sense now. Basically I need to filter out all of the particles before it reaches my bio filter sections so that the particles do not clog up the pours of that media. I mistakenly put crushed coral in the bottom of my tank and forgot how much waste it collects so I was trying to think of another use for it. I was thinking of using it for a nitrite oxidising unit like you had on your old tank(the 14 year old unit) and was going to put it into the back section of my small tank for now to get the bio filter going so I can have a lot of 'seed' for when I get my bigger tank. I would of course clean the crushed coral very well before moving it and add a lot more filter wool than I currently have to keep particles of waste out. I really like the idea of your vertical deep sand beds in the pipe section. I like that it can be portable also which is much more difficult to do with an actual deep sand bed in a tank.


I was thinking I could use my crushed coral for something like you did here:



And just put it in the back sections of my tank here but maybe this crushed coral can go into the 200ml pipe vertical deep sand bed instead.

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 11th August 2012, 2:12 pm

You could get away with just a settling pre filter and clean it each day unless you go away for a time, that would work fine.

Back in the trickle filter days they had issues with those bio filters and this silly live rock bio filtering took over because no one used proper pre filtering to keep the external intense surface area clean.

Even the filter socks donít cut it, you can not pre filter the waters if the water is forced at, pumped through or splashed onto the sock of wadding, the particles go through, thatís why a settling style of pre filter is the answer to not making your bio filter into a nitrate factory!

That means the bio surface area is sealed up by particles a part from coralines etc and the anaerobic bacteria internally die off and there is nothing natural to oxidise nitrate to nitrogen, so you have abundant nitrates.

Even nitrate reactors need carefully pre filtered waters to them or over time they are useless!!

Even the live rock will lose its porus nature over time,if these small particles are not removed from the waters and a skimmer does not do any of this,they will degrade the waters.

So they try to use skimmers to remove organics before they can become inorganic or begin the nitrite cycle on the waste.

This is fine with slight bio loads, constant testing and being very aware of whatís going on with your water and there is the problem, novices donít have that sought of forethought from experience and over populate,misdiagnose and fail, a small amount or a tank crash sadly.

Just always be aware that after the nitrite cycle has done its bit you are left with a great deal of phosphates, they are ever so slightly poisonous to fish and greatly poisonous to photosynthetic/symbiotic life forms.

Make sure you account for these as well!

cheers

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  kindcorals on 12th August 2012, 7:10 am

Thank you for the thorough explanation, it makes a lot more sense now how the bio filters can stop working if there is no settling pre filter. how would you recommend to set that up so that it would be fine to leave I cleaned for a week or more at a time? This could be an issue as we like to travel a bit so I want to try and design a system that could be left for a while with only minimal maintenance required.

I think chaeto is what I used before for phosphate export so I might just use that again if the racemosa won't get that job done.

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Re: My first glass aquarium in two years,a moderately eutrophic system.

Post  liquidg on 12th August 2012, 12:27 pm

There are a thousand ways to make a settling pre filter,get a thread going on your set up and pics here and there,they are easier to work off.

I accidentally made this type of pre filter from an idea, that I had for the need with a certain fit into a corner tank that I made in 98,my daughter broke that tank.

I had just recently bought a heavy duty magnetic glass cleaner as the tank was all ten mill,I broke most of the glass cutting that one, I can t cut thick glass,any way it was when I was at a club meeting when the club was the biggest in Auz,she hit the end of the tank quite hard and didnít realise it fractured the a small panel of the three sided corner.

It wasnít till 5 am when my other half said she could here the tank sounding different, the mat in the kitchen was floating by then, oh well it led to an even better set up I was making any way.

One of our guys found some chaetomorpha a while back and I tried to get info on it from those that have used it, why I went on the big auz forum for that or anything really was foolish, so I went to reef central and there was some help there, should have gone there in the first place.

They knew a little on it but what I did in my tubs with it was further then they were with it and it was very interesting as well.

By then I had carried out trials and found chaeto works on nitrate nicely but not well with phosphates, it does import some but no where near as good as this race mosa, becuase the chaeto is related to blue green algae so the bacteria aspect of it is high, all algae rely on bacteria internally, but chaeto is just that little bit more so then the single celled caulerpa, to the best of my knowledge any way.

The local form of racemosa I use (those in the field class this type of racemosa as the most morphic of all caulerpa known),it is a bit sensitive to some issues like temp and robust multicellular algae forms and the bacteria/algae combo cyano.

They can smother it very quickly and its incredible nutrient importing qualities become non-existent, then if your water goes beyond 24c-25c,it croaks!!

Or goes sexual like that sand box lot prescribe to.

This racemosa I use is as weak as and needs protecting at every opportunity, this one has no sap born toxins to protect it self as all others do, the form of bacteria with in it is extremely heat sensitive and its cellulose structural support is based on aragonite, this one is as weak as!

But,it absorbs rubbish from the aquariums waters to the degree that I can not imagine anything being this good at it and I have trailed many!!

Oh and all tangs I have had and angelfish and even clown fish and most other damsels will get into it, must taste good,lol.

So as you can imagine, its not that easy to keep but the benefits are extreme!

Have a look at this if you like, its all tried and proven and the things I didnít do I actually spoke to informed people for the rest.
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Tank from then till now.

Post  liquidg on 17th September 2012, 4:06 pm

The tank at 0 nitrites at July 24th.

Adding life tomorrow.



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This is the tank as of 16 of August.



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This is the tank as of the 29th of August 2011



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This the tank as of the 21st of September 2011



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This is the tank as of the 13th of October 2011



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This is the tank as of 7th of November 2011



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This is the tank as of the 5th of December 2011.
The pest has affected or killed most soft corals and two stgas were lost.



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This is the tank as of the 4th of January 2012



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This is the tank as of the 4th of February 2012.
System is finaly looking stable again afte that pest was let in.



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This is the tank as of the 6th of March 2012.




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This is the tank as of the 16th of April 2012
Moved left hand stag to right and some changes have occured with it?




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This is the tank as of 23rd of May 2012
A couple of extremely weak corals were tried at the bottom of my tank and with in a month they had died, so no more experimenting with the lights,the corals that are in the tank will remain in their places and no experiments,the lights were cheap so I get a cheap results with depth penetration.
The algae for display puproses in the aquarium is spreading like wild fire now and off setting the nutirent importing beautifully.




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This is the tank as of 24th of June 2012
No experimenting of late,just many algaes thriving that i was hoping would.




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Tank as of July 18th 2012.
Experimenting with naturely conditioned waters and LEDs is finished, one year is enough of experimenting with the display tank.
The last 11 months have found some interesting results with the use of LEDs and varied corals in naturally conditioned waters.
The algae types including flexible corallines are all doing really well as with everything else.
I lost 3 corals and had to remove three more at the time of the algae pest that wiped out my algae filtration,and two other corals when other life forms would grow over them, especially zoas.
I reduced corals that were over abundant, moved some to see how they would do under varied lighting positioning for the LEDs.
How the lighting is working is finished with and the understanding of how things live in the NWMS conditioned waters is finished.
The other tank I cut up ready to assemble goes onto this system soon and it will be just inverts.
From the addition of the next tank I will dose it for the corals to some degree and make specific foods for them.



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The tank as of 11th August 2012.
This is the last pic of the tank with corals in it, they come out and into the invert tank tomorrow.



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The tank as of 17th of September 2012.
All but three corals were transferd to the lower tank.




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The tank as of 26th of October 2012



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The tank as of 14th of November 2012 with the new light fitting over it.







Last edited by liquidg on 14th November 2012, 7:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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